Black Health Matters Digital Marketing and Operations Manager Claudia Lopez chats with Autumn Walker, a Licensed Therapist and founder of the Soul Reasons, about her developmental company, why she wants Black women to leave imposter syndrome behind, why self-care is necessary, and much more. Listen to their chat below. Or read the full transcript. But don’t miss out on the gems.
Claudia Lopez (00:13):
My name is Claudia Lopez. I am the digital marketing and operations manager here at Black Health Matters, and today, I am joined by Autumn Walker. So, Autumn, tell me a little bit about yourself, what mental health means to you, and how you’ve built your career around being able to provide other people with mental health support.
Autumn Walker (00:37):
Yeah, so thank you so much, Claudia, for having me. I’m so excited to be on this platform and platform that really centers the importance of black health and making sure that it’s a part of the conversation and on the table. So, I’m also happy to be a part of that conversation. So as you all may know, I’m Autumn Walker, and I’m a licensed therapist in Maryland I’m also the founder of the Soul Reasons LLC, which is a mental wellness company and a personal development company, empowering black women to overcome imposter syndrome. And I got into mental health. I will say that I didn’t find mental health. Mental health found me. I have always had a deep level of connection, a deep connection with understanding human behavior and why people do what they do. That whole nature versus nurture conversation really just sparked my interest from a very early age.
(01:41):
And I tried to fit into a different career field. I wanted to be a veterinarian and quickly realize like, okay, this is not in alignment with me. And I stumbled across psychology, and it was smooth sailing, well, not necessarily smoothest. It was a rocky road. Nonetheless though, it definitely, it made sense, it made sense. So, throughout my college career, taking all these different courses and classes as a psych major, every single class resonated with me. I just really took in the information. However, it was my counseling techniques course, I believe it was like counseling theories and techniques, something like that, that really drew me in. And I could just visualize myself meeting someone in a dark space and walking with them side by side into the light and it just spoke to who I was as a person. It spoke to my values. It just really called to me.
(02:51):
And so I decided to pursue that career path and enrolled at Johns Hopkins University in my hometown in Baltimore, Maryland. And I was really drawn to their program because there was a strong emphasis on diversity, social inclusion, equity, all those things. And that was something that I felt very passionately about as well since high school. And I carried into my college career and later on into my graduate career and eventually even into my professional career as well. And once I became a licensed therapist, I do not find it to be ironic that it was in 2020 and I’m graduating about a week before or maybe after around the murder of George Floyd. And I immediately had an emotional response to all that I was ingesting on the computer screen, my phone screen, the news. It was just a lot of information. It was a lot of traumatic content that I was digesting, and I didn’t know it at the time, but eventually, I was able to put language to it, and I was experiencing some depression.
(04:15):
I wasn’t eating, I wasn’t sleeping. I was lacking interest and pleasure in things that I enjoy. These are signs of a depressive episode. And I said, you know what? This needs to be addressed more. I don’t see people talking about the correlation between racial trauma and mental health. And that’s where the soul reason was born. It was a call to action against all that I was witnessing to. And so in addition to working my nine to five, working in the school system, working in the criminal justice system, in a detention center with youth, and then eventually virtually with adults, I also was doing this social justice work through mental health, through my platform. And something that I am continuously doing today, even in the lens of the so reasons as well as clinically with my clients, is making sure that everyone engages with me in this capacity, and understands that everything starts with the mind, everything, the way you see yourself, how you perceive the world, how you show up in relationships.
(05:34):
All this starts with the mind. And because we as human beings exist on a spectrum, we have to recognize that there are things outside of us that impact how we see ourselves and how we in our self-image and self-perception and something that we need to consider is the structural systems that are loudly and at the same time silently having a major impact on how we see ourselves. And because, like I said, everything starts with the mind and our identity, and everything is going to flow from that. So our decisions, our choices, how we engage with the world, how we engage on relationships, how we engage with ourselves are going to flow from these inner beliefs that we have about ourselves, which can be heavily influenced by the system. So that was a longwinded answer, just to say as a mental health therapist is something that I do that I feel like I was called to do. And I also use it as a way to intervene and my attempt to dismantle the systemic norms that plagues disenfranchised communities, particularly black folks because I’m black. But at the same time, just overall I believe mental health and starting with the mind can be a source of change in the world.
Claudia Lopez (07:06):
Yeah. So I have a question for you because you did bring up how content that you were seeing at the time impacted your journey. So what are some other ways do you think that a mental health journey is impacted specifically when you are black
Autumn Walker (07:29):
Systemic in addition to the messages that we may receive and may even internalize because they are reinforced time and time again, it’s hard for me to separate the two because I can even say they’re generational, generational patterns. I’m a big believer in the impact of family and how family and upbringing plays a role in how we behave, how we process our emotions, show up in relationships, all those things. And so of course those that definitely can be a connection to our overall mental wellbeing over the course of our journey. Because as children, we’re like sponges. So we’re just soaking it all up. That’s just the way our brains are developing at that time. We’re soaking in all this information and whatever’s being modeled in front of us, we’re going to take and we’re going to run with it. And so some things are very blatant, such as the way our parents may handle stress, the way our grandmothers or grandparents or whoever our guardians are, how they may express emotions the way even in our neighborhoods and our schools, how children are treated and how the adults interact with the children and how a lot of these things will definitely have an impact long-term impact on our overall mental wellbeing.
(09:17):
And at the same time, it’s like it all goes right back to, it’s so hard for me to separate just structural oppression and racism from just even our conversations about the home and our community because it’s so intrusive. However, there can be things that happens more on a microscopic lens, so more micro, and there are also things happening on a macro level as well. So it can be a lot to juggle for sure. And at the same time, it’s kind of hard for me to separate the two because they intersect in so many ways.
Claudia Lopez (09:55):
What are some ways that you see mental health being manifested in physical health,
Autumn Walker (10:05):
Especially in regards to the black community? To our bodies tend to manifest or give us different warning signs that something is off first. And some warning signs that are pretty common is the gut. So your gut is some of the chemical, not neurons, the chemical properties in the gut. They communicate a lot with the chemical properties in our brain. So those butterflies that you feel and that sinking feeling in your tummy when you’re anxious or that loss of appetite or maybe an increase in appetite. So your gut tends to be, I always say it’s definitely one of the major ways that your body is letting you know that something is off. In addition to that chronic pain as well, chronic pain, whether it’s in your chest, your back can also be another way because the body is not meant to hold on to emotion. It’s not meant to hold on, such as stress, anxiety, depression, shame, guilt, all the different emotions.
(11:29):
These things are meant to be felt and released. So when we hold onto them because we don’t have proper or appropriate outlets, it got to go somewhere so it does get stored in the body and it can start to manifest. So that’s where that pain can be coming from, issues in the gut as well. And sometimes this can be seen as physical, but it’s also behavioral as well. Sleep that matters as well. Sleep requires relaxation, but if there’s a lot of restless activity happening in the body, it’s going to be really pretty difficult for the body system to actually relax. And so I definitely find that when we’re referring to just the black community, because mental health is still a novice conversation, sometimes it can be, I would say, a little bit easier for us to be able to just listen to our bodies and pay attention to our bodies to let us know when something is on or when something is very much so off.
Claudia Lopez (12:40):
And that’s a perfect statement because I’m curious how, as you mentioned, being part of a community that often stigmatizes mental health and negates some of the discussions or conversations that we try to have. How do we as a community pour into each other or acknowledge these conversations or how can we do better to ensure that we are acknowledging mental health as a community?
Autumn Walker (13:10):
The first thing that comes to mind for me, Claudia, is to start the example in my family. I used to get made fun of because I was the one who was very mindful about what I ate. I am very intentional about my skin routine, my water intake, and working out. I’m slim by nature, but my granddad was like, what you working out for? You’re already skinny. And I’m like, grand pop, pop. This is for my mental, this is to help me feel good. I feel energetic and alive and more rooted and grounded when I work out. He still doesn’t get it. It’s okay, but I get it though. And I think, but yes, setting the example and because I feel like if we get so caught up in trying force it down people’s throats, it’s going to be very hard for folks, one for themselves and two to see the benefit of it. However, if you are walking and talking, the mental health, they’re going to see it. They’re going to see it. You look lighter today.
(14:48):
Something seems different about you. I can’t put my hands on it. But then we can start to have the conversation. In addition to that, I think it’s also important for us to continue to humanize folks and understand everyone may not be where you are when it comes to just understanding the importance of wellness and health. We have to take into consideration that for generations, this type of conversations, it seemed almost like a luxury or a privilege for generations. Black folks were just trying to survive. So talking about this health thing and this wellness thing. At one point this seemed like it was only for white people. So, depending on, and I can’t even say this is just for older generations because, like I said earlier, as kids, we’ll take this, and we will soak it up because we’re sponges. So I would even say maybe even from millennials, and I don’t know about all about Gen Z, but they seem to be taking the reins and doing their own thing, which I’m not mad at all. Nonetheless, though, I do think it’s important for us to have a sense of compassion and empathy that everyone may not be there yet. And so that kind of loops back into that optimism. Looping back to what I was encouraging you all to do is how about we just start with you, start with you.
(16:19):
And through that consistency and through that genuine desire to want to be well and healthy, allow that to speak for itself. And those who will come, they will come. And I kind of just think about it just one at a time. This is probably one of those things that’s not going to be quick and a snap of a finger. Like I said, there’s generational things going on, cultural things going on. It’s a lot of layers, a lot of reinforced layers, a lot of things that could posing obstacle to progress and change, which is why we got to focus on what we can focus on, which is, and that is what is in your control and that’s you. So start with you and continue to extend, I mean, compassion to others.
Claudia Lopez (17:19):
Something that I love that you said was that it doesn’t happen at the snap of a finger. I think a lot of people want to put a timeframe on how long it takes to create their or to complete their mental health journey. So what do you have to say towards the people who are trying to find a number or trying to say, how long does this take
Autumn Walker (17:44):
To understand what a journey is? I’m always, I do this in sessions sometimes I actually Google, what does Webster say about this? And if I’m not mistaken, a journey is ongoing.
Claudia Lopez (18:00):
It’s lifelong.
Autumn Walker (18:01):
Exactly. And so to that point, I will encourage, I love this new thing that I’ve been, it’s just something that I recently came across. My mind just likes to move. And something my mind landed on recently is to have fun with it. Have fun with the journey, embrace the twist and the turns and the yeps and the downs. Because in each direction that the journey takes you, there’s something to learn. There’s something that you can take away from. There’s something that can propel you to the next level, embrace the journey. And rather than looking for a deadline or an end date, rather than just try to think about it and like, what’s next? What can I learn about me next? What can I learn about how I engage with myself and my community and my partner and my friends? What else am I going to learn about myself on this journey?
(19:07):
And I think also it could be helpful to have someone in your corner such as a therapist to also, because it can get hard. I do not want to romanticize the journey too much because it is hard putting a mirror in front of yourself and seeing you seeing parts that you tried your very best to hide or shadow. This is not easy work, and I think that’s something that often get skipped when we’re addressing mental health because sometimes we can make it look like a lot of glitz and glam. It is sometimes weeping and crying your eyes out. It’s sometimes screaming. It is sometimes going silent. It can have a lot of colors. It’s very colorful, this mental health journey. So in addition to having fun with it, I think it’s also helpful to have someone in your corner such as a therapist, to help you navigate so that you can feel empowered and equipped to be able to steer the boat no matter which direction it goes in.
Claudia Lopez (20:30):
Something that I want to touch on is that you said the things that you tried to hide or the things that you tried to shadow. And as someone who is chronically online, I’ve heard a lot lately about something called shadow work. So can you explain what shadow work is and how that is a part of someone’s mental health journey?
Autumn Walker (20:53):
Yeah. Shadow work is ultimately intentional effort and intentional effort in a processing of understanding some of sometimes unconscious or subconscious behavior that we may engage in because at some point in our lives it was helpful, it was useful, it helped you to push through maybe some difficult and dark situations and because it helped and it worked out, or maybe you had to use it several times on several occasions, it started to become just what I do, nature. It started to become who I am, and next thing you know, it kind of gets tucked away because our brains just started conceptualizing this as you need to do this to survive. However, because the brain is still kind of considered ancient to some psychologists or those in the field, there’s this concept of evolutionary psychology where the brain is still evolving, and it’s still kind of trapped back into caveman in women’s times.
(22:33):
So the brain sometimes doesn’t really catch up to the fact that you are not 10 anymore; you’re actually 30 now, and life is a little different. So you don’t have to stay in that survival mode anymore. You don’t have to engage in these behaviors anymore. They’re actually hurting you more than they’re helping you. However, because it’s shadowed, you don’t see that. We don’t notice what’s that. We just think this is who I am, and this is just how I do things. Like, no, you were conditioned and taught to do it this way because it helped at some point in time, but now it’s time to relinquish that. But that’s scary because it helped you for so long. And so shadow work also means not only bringing it to the light, what can we do now?
Claudia Lopez (23:30):
Accountability,
Autumn Walker (23:33):
There we go. What can we do differently now that still gives you the same functionality, is still protecting you, it’s still helping you, and still keeping you alive and safe, just with less risk?
Claudia Lopez (23:49):
So we talked about what it means to be on a mental health journey, specifically when you’re someone in the black community. We talked about different types of work in mental health and how it contributes to physical health. So, for the people who want to start their mental health journey, this will be our last question: how do they start? Who do they go to? Take me through that.
Autumn Walker (24:18):
Yeah, I think it’s kind of hard to answer that question because different people are in different spaces and places and have different levels of access to care or to resources. So to try to keep it as general as possible. Something that I’ve been encouraging my community to do is to get back to the basics. Start taking care of your basic needs first. So that looks like you’re eating. Are we eating nutritiously?
(24:53):
Are we eating three meals? In those three meals? What are we eating? It looks like physical activity moving your body. And we have even in addition to the food, we have a level of privilege that our foremothers and forefathers did not have. We have so many resources at our disposal now from the internet to just different inventions. There’s so many different ways in which we can engage in physical activity from YouTube to just walking to different free classes on Eventbrite. There’s just so many different ways you can engage in physical activity and even just healthier eating habits as well. Substance use, nobody wants to talk about it. So I will. We have definitely normalized some things in culture around substance use. I’ve recently some self-disclosure just decided to practice full sobriety from all substances and it pulled me back and allowed me to realize, whoa, there’s a lot of normalcy around certain substances and moderation is key.
(26:22):
However, there needs to be more discussion if you ask me about or more education about what is dependency, what is chemical dependency and what is addiction and what is not. And so I would encourage folks to be very mindful of how much you’re in taking any kind of substance use of choice. When are you doing it? How often are you doing it? Why are you doing it? Any patterns you notice around your use. Substance use your physical health, physical ailments, listen to your body. If your back hurts, don’t just throw an icy hot on it. Okay. If it’s continuously hurting you, please check in with your medical provider. If that migraine doesn’t seem like a typical migraine or a headache, you know this isn’t typical, please check in on that. So, for physical illness, pay attention to that. Personal hygiene. We probably would say, isn’t that just a no-brainer? Not for everyone. Actually, personal hygiene tends to be the first thing that goes out the window when people are feeling depressed, anxious, or burnt out. I’ll take a shower later, and I’ll brush my teeth later.
(27:43):
I’ll just throw on the first thing that I see. I won’t even put myself together. Personal hygiene, take care of that. What else up, sleep, duh? That also may seem like a no-brainer. However, sleep is very challenging for many different people, and understandably so. And so I would say get back to the basics first and foremost. That’s something that I think we owe it to ourselves. We owe it to our bodies, and you’re more than deserving of that. Far as where to go if another thing that we have privilege to is I am a big fan of therapy. I think therapy is very transformative and at the same time, I understand that therapy is not for everyone and I am not mad at that. I’m not mad at that at all. There are support groups, they are spiritual leaders, spiritual counseling as well. I think at the same time I do think that we are subjective by nature, so you do need someone.
(28:54):
We do need someone on the outside to check us on the inside. So that can be a coach, a mentor, a spiritual leader, a counselor, an actual therapist, as well as a support group. Nonetheless, though, I do think it is important for you to recognize that, especially as black folks, because we do have this independence thing about us, which is totally understandable. Nonetheless, though, we are also still social beings at the end of the day, so including some sort of unbiased party in your journey or just into your well-being can also be very productive as well. Wow, that was a lot of amazing
Claudia Lopez (29:40):
Information. I think our audience here has much to work with. I hope so. This is a long journey. This is a lifelong journey, as Auta mentioned, and thank you so much for joining me today. Thanks for having me.
